1	00:00:09:07	00:00:12:18

Your business in the Netherlands

is up and running and even growing.



2	00:00:12:21	00:00:17:03

Congratulations,

all that hard work is paying off.



3	00:00:17:06	00:00:21:16

Now you're ready for the next steps.

But what does that mean?



4	00:00:21:19	00:00:25:15

Will you be hiring staff for the

first time? Do you need to relocate?



5	00:00:25:18	00:00:29:19

Is the legal structure you've chosen

still the right one for your company?



6	00:00:29:22	00:00:31:10

What about taxes?



7	00:00:31:13	00:00:35:21

And how to manage other

business processes with a view to growth?



8	00:00:35:24	00:00:39:02

Do you have enough money

for your future plans?



9	00:00:39:05	00:00:44:02

There are many questions.

More than can be answered in one hour.



10	00:00:44:05	00:00:46:11

That's why we have our chat team in place.



11	00:00:46:14	00:00:50:19

You can pose your question through

the chat function below your video screen.



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We'll make sure you receive a response.



13	00:00:53:04	00:00:56:10

If not during this webinar

then soon afterwards.



14	00:00:57:13	00:01:00:01

We will focus on four main topics

in this webinar



15	00:01:00:04	00:01:03:11

for entrepreneurs in

the growing phase of their business.



16	00:01:03:14	00:01:08:06

Legal structure,

taxes, staff and financing.



17	00:01:08:09	00:01:10:22

We will discuss these topics

with Johan Laffra



18	00:01:11:00	00:01:14:04

business consultant

with the Netherlands Chamber of Commerce



19	00:01:14:07	00:01:19:17

and entrepreneurs Karim Sabri, founder

and CEO of the platform Expat Republic



20	00:01:19:20	00:01:24:21

and Geta Rasciuc, founder

and CEO of Babymoon. Welcome.



21	00:01:28:20	00:01:31:13

Johan, to start it off with you.



22	00:01:31:16	00:01:35:22

Entrepreneurs, when they start in general

and have just kicked off their business



23	00:01:36:00	00:01:38:18

what in general should they be mindful of?



24	00:01:38:21	00:01:42:07

I think there are a lot of things

that you need to be mindful of.



25	00:01:42:10	00:01:44:18

Once you actually start the business



26	00:01:44:21	00:01:48:08

there's all kinds of processes

that you need to work with.



27	00:01:48:11	00:01:51:23

You need to know where you're going.



28	00:01:52:01	00:01:55:00

You need to keep your eye on the direction

you want to go in with your business



29	00:01:55:03	00:01:57:22

but you need to set everything

in place and in motion.



30	00:01:58:00	00:02:00:11

I think that's the most important step.



31	00:02:00:14	00:02:05:02

Get your clients,

get your paperwork up and running



32	00:02:05:05	00:02:08:06

and start going in the direction

you want to go in.



33	00:02:08:09	00:02:11:08

And what type of aspects come with that:



34	00:02:11:11	00:02:14:19

setting up your business

and getting the legal work done?



35	00:02:14:22	00:02:19:03

Well, I think the most important one

is setting up your taxes.



36	00:02:19:06	00:02:24:07

So at that point,

get your money streams in order.



37	00:02:24:10	00:02:30:01

I think for most start-up companies,

that's the most important part.



38	00:02:30:04	00:02:34:22

But once that's taken care of, then it's

going to be doing the actual business



39	00:02:35:00	00:02:38:07

getting out there,

get your name known, get your clients



40	00:02:38:10	00:02:41:10

and start doing what it is

that you're good at doing.



41	00:02:41:13	00:02:46:05

Great. So these are all aspects that we

will zoom in on later on in this webinar.



42	00:02:46:08	00:02:50:08

But first, let's meet our entrepreneurs.

Welcome to both of you.



43	00:02:50:11	00:02:54:24

Geta, to start off with you,

you have founded a really special company



44	00:02:55:02	00:02:57:10

around a special baby product.



45	00:02:57:13	00:03:01:11

Special baby carriers for especially

small babies, if I remember correctly.



46	00:03:01:14	00:03:05:22

Could you elaborate?

-It is a pretty niche business.



47	00:03:06:00	00:03:09:05

We're looking at really



48	00:03:09:08	00:03:13:05

changing the care approach to new-borns



49	00:03:13:08	00:03:17:09

to children actually

in their first thousand days of life.



50	00:03:17:12	00:03:23:10

It's all evidence-based.

And yeah, it started around a baby carrier



51	00:03:23:13	00:03:29:15

but it's actually a much larger

angle towards what we're doing.



52	00:03:29:18	00:03:32:23

Maybe to explain it a bit more,

we can watch this video you made.



53	00:03:33:01	00:03:36:14

Yeah, I think that would be easier

for people to understand.



54	00:03:36:17	00:03:39:22

Hi, I am Geta.

I am the founder of Babymoon Care



55	00:03:40:00	00:03:45:19

and we are working to change infant care

to an attachment model all over the world.



56	00:03:45:22	00:03:51:13

I started as an entrepreneur

overall in baby carriers.



57	00:03:51:16	00:03:56:11

It was 2006, I had my first son,

so I started wearing my son.



58	00:03:56:14	00:03:58:19

I was in love with the concept of that.



59	00:03:58:22	00:04:03:09

And step by step, I would figure out

all the benefits that brought to me.



60	00:04:03:12	00:04:09:10

2006 until 2010,

I was just making baby carriers.



61	00:04:09:13	00:04:13:02

I wanted to not do the business, but then



62	00:04:13:05	00:04:17:23

the world told me like:

No, we need you to do this.



63	00:04:18:01	00:04:22:08

That's when I started working

with the maternity hospitals in Moldova



64	00:04:22:11	00:04:26:20

and working more on a system

of care rather than just a device.



65	00:04:26:23	00:04:31:17

Babymoon is actually a much more complex

system than just a carrier company.



66	00:04:31:20	00:04:35:19

I come from Moldova, 

I am in the Netherlands since 2016.



67	00:04:35:22	00:04:39:09

Since then there was

a lot of groundwork covered.



68	00:04:39:12	00:04:44:12

And now we're working

in the Scandinavian region and Benelux



69	00:04:44:15	00:04:47:17

and we have a big,

important project coming up



70	00:04:47:20	00:04:50:02

with Tanzania and Kenya



71	00:04:50:05	00:04:53:17

and that's done together

with the United Nations.



72	00:04:53:20	00:04:57:06

So we have a lot of stuff going on.



73	00:04:58:09	00:05:02:07

Back in the time when I came up with

the concept, for me this was just fiction.



74	00:05:02:10	00:05:04:04

And here I am in the Netherlands



75	00:05:04:07	00:05:09:02

and here I am, connected by the Dutch

entrepreneurial environment



76	00:05:09:05	00:05:11:06

to the United Nations.



77	00:05:11:09	00:05:15:05

And here I am making that fiction

that I came up with



78	00:05:15:08	00:05:17:11

four years ago, a reality.



79	00:05:17:14	00:05:21:07

So that's mind-blowing to myself even.

But aside from connections like this



80	00:05:21:10	00:05:24:01

you get really huge opportunities



81	00:05:24:04	00:05:29:03

and there are so many more doorways

opened to build a global business.



82	00:05:29:06	00:05:31:05

So that's valuable.



83	00:05:34:21	00:05:39:04

Geta, how would you characterise

the current state that your company is in



84	00:05:39:07	00:05:42:08

and in a nutshell, how did you get there?



85	00:05:42:11	00:05:45:08

In a nutshell, it took a lot of effort



86	00:05:45:11	00:05:51:14

and a lot of research and adapting

to the environment where I ended up.



87	00:05:51:17	00:05:55:08

But the current state would be like



88	00:05:55:11	00:06:01:07

we're right about to take off.

So that's pretty exciting.



89	00:06:01:10	00:06:03:14

That's super exciting.

Congratulations.



90	00:06:03:17	00:06:08:00

And Karim, to introduce you,

you have, if I remember correctly



91	00:06:08:03	00:06:10:10

an online platform

for expats in the Netherlands



92	00:06:10:13	00:06:12:20

so they can connect to each other.



93	00:06:12:23	00:06:16:22

How would you describe your rise to the

stage that your company is at right now?



94	00:06:17:00	00:06:21:07

Actually, it started off as a hobby

just doing events and meetups for expats



95	00:06:21:10	00:06:24:19

because it's hard to move to a new

country with no friends and no network.



96	00:06:24:22	00:06:28:09

It started to grow as a hobby and

we started to do bigger and more events.



97	00:06:28:12	00:06:31:04

And then we became also more online,

with the pandemic



98	00:06:31:07	00:06:33:09

and we have articles and webinars.



99	00:06:33:12	00:06:38:01

That's how we grew and we got a lot of

attention and people started contacting us.



100	00:06:38:04	00:06:42:19

Amazing.

Let's also watch your video.



101	00:06:42:22	00:06:47:18

I'm Karim Sabri, I'm from Canada and

the name of my company is Expat Republic.



102	00:06:48:21	00:06:52:17

We are an English media company

based in the Netherlands



103	00:06:52:20	00:06:56:00

and we provide content and events

and knowledge for expats



104	00:06:56:03	00:06:58:22

to make their life fruitful and enjoyable



105	00:06:59:00	00:07:02:23

while they're in the Netherlands,

to help them also grow their network.



106	00:07:03:01	00:07:05:01

In fact, it was a hobby.



107	00:07:05:04	00:07:09:21

I noticed that a lot of expats didn't have

many friends, they didn't have a network.



108	00:07:09:24	00:07:12:14

So I stepped in

and I enjoyed organising events



109	00:07:12:17	00:07:15:03

so I just started doing loads of

events and meetups



110	00:07:15:06	00:07:18:17

to kind of help them

not be lonely, essentially.



111	00:07:19:19	00:07:24:04

We try and cover all walks of life

for expatriates and internationals.



112	00:07:24:07	00:07:27:15

So, for instance, we will have

a Basics of Investing webinar.



113	00:07:27:18	00:07:30:11

We will have a seminar

about buying your own home.



114	00:07:30:14	00:07:35:13

We will just do drinks, like super easy,

just so people can meet and connect



115	00:07:35:16	00:07:37:21

and grow their personal and social network.



116	00:07:37:24	00:07:41:15

So you want to kind of give them

that feeling of being at home.



117	00:07:41:18	00:07:43:24

The way we make money is very simple.

It's a media company



118	00:07:44:02	00:07:47:01

the same way a magazine

makes money: with advertising.



119	00:07:47:04	00:07:49:21

But the idea is

it's a sort of smart advertising.



120	00:07:49:24	00:07:51:19

It's helpful, it's knowledgeable.



121	00:07:51:22	00:07:55:06

It's not inconvenient or intrusive.



122	00:07:55:09	00:07:59:02

We really like to transfer knowledge

to our audience or transfer something nice



123	00:07:59:05	00:08:01:01

so they have a good feeling, right?



124	00:08:01:04	00:08:04:07

And so as a partner

that will like to do that



125	00:08:04:10	00:08:08:20

to provide that to an international

audience, we're the perfect vehicle.



126	00:08:08:23	00:08:12:11

So for me, the Netherlands is

an incredible place to be an entrepreneur.



127	00:08:12:14	00:08:15:05

Loads of opportunities,

easy to do business in



128	00:08:15:08	00:08:17:14

very direct, very honest,

very straightforward.



129	00:08:17:17	00:08:23:11

Lots of opportunities,

access to capital, access to labour force



130	00:08:23:14	00:08:26:15

a good system in place

that makes doing business very easy.



131	00:08:26:18	00:08:28:05

And you can also do it in English.



132	00:08:29:24	00:08:34:10

Karim, are you also planning on

professionalising your business further?



133	00:08:34:13	00:08:37:22

Of course, we're always looking to grow.

We're already quite professional.



134	00:08:38:00	00:08:43:00

We're of course looking to grow and to

expand to other European countries as well.



135	00:08:43:03	00:08:48:10

And are you also looking then to maybe

turn it into a different legal structure?



136	00:08:48:13	00:08:52:02

Yeah, of course. That's probably

something we should have done already



137	00:08:52:05	00:08:53:21

but everything has its time.



138	00:08:53:24	00:08:57:10

I just want to make sure that things are

done in a structured way that works for us



139	00:08:57:13	00:09:00:24

and that we can continue to grow

with a good foundation properly.



140	00:09:01:02	00:09:04:01

So you are indeed looking to see

maybe if you can change that.



141	00:09:04:04	00:09:06:18

Because when starting a business,

also growing a business



142	00:09:06:21	00:09:08:15

that legal structure can change.



143	00:09:08:18	00:09:12:24

So that's a really important aspect that we

will also dive into later on in this webinar.



144	00:09:13:02	00:09:16:10

Thank you so much.

But maybe before we dive into that deeper



145	00:09:16:13	00:09:18:07

Johan, could you explain to us



146	00:09:18:10	00:09:20:18

what different legal structures

there are in the Netherlands?



147	00:09:20:21	00:09:24:04

There are quite a few

legal structures that you can choose from.



148	00:09:24:07	00:09:26:19

I think the most well-known 

are the sole proprietorship



149	00:09:26:22	00:09:28:13

in Dutch called the 'eenmanszaak'



150	00:09:28:16	00:09:33:13

which is the legal form most start-up

businesses choose when they register.



151	00:09:33:16	00:09:37:22

But there are legal structures

for partnerships, that's also possible.



152	00:09:38:00	00:09:42:06

And you have the possibility

to register a legal entity



153	00:09:42:09	00:09:48:15

the most common being

the liability company, the BV.



154	00:09:48:18	00:09:53:22

What is the main difference then

between a sole proprietorship and a BV?



155	00:09:54:00	00:09:59:07

I think there are two. They're

different when it comes to liability.



156	00:09:59:10	00:10:02:04

As a one-man business,

you're personally liable.



157	00:10:02:07	00:10:05:23

As a legal entity, you're not.

So that's a huge difference.



158	00:10:06:01	00:10:09:01

On the other hand,

when it comes to taxes



159	00:10:09:04	00:10:12:07

and you're a start-up business,

you might benefit just a little more



160	00:10:12:10	00:10:16:18

from the sole proprietorship

than you would as a legal entity.



161	00:10:16:21	00:10:19:17

So, when should you review

your legal structure in that case?



162	00:10:19:20	00:10:22:21

I'd say that once you start growing



163	00:10:22:24	00:10:26:01

the business starts increasing,

there's more money going around



164	00:10:26:04	00:10:28:21

your liability becomes a bigger issue



165	00:10:28:24	00:10:31:14

and you might want to

start working with staff



166	00:10:31:17	00:10:35:23

all elements that increase your liability



167	00:10:36:01	00:10:41:00

that could be a point at which

you make the change into a legal entity.



168	00:10:41:03	00:10:43:10

And I would also say, look at taxes.



169	00:10:43:13	00:10:46:23

Once you start paying too much taxes

as a sole proprietor



170	00:10:47:01	00:10:50:14

I think that's going to be the cue

from your accountant or your bookkeeper



171	00:10:50:17	00:10:53:07

to make the change into a legal entity.



172	00:10:53:10	00:10:56:07

So that, of course,

would be a huge advantage to change.



173	00:10:56:10	00:11:01:10

Are there any other main advantages

to switching to a BV?



174	00:11:01:13	00:11:05:07

Depends. If you go international,

there could be an argument.



175	00:11:05:10	00:11:09:11

Being a director of a legal entity

in foreign countries



176	00:11:09:14	00:11:13:12

is easier to explain

than having a sole proprietorship.



177	00:11:13:15	00:11:17:14

That could be one. And I'd say

if you start working with investors



178	00:11:17:17	00:11:22:01

then also a BV becomes more interesting



179	00:11:22:04	00:11:25:01

because you can have investors

who can have shares.



180	00:11:25:04	00:11:30:05

And that's not possible if you have a sole

proprietorship or a general partnership.



181	00:11:30:08	00:11:34:22

How should an entrepreneur know when their 

business would actually qualify as a BV



182	00:11:35:00	00:11:36:19

if it wants to

take advantage of all of this?



183	00:11:36:22	00:11:41:00

I'd say that you'd normally

have your accountant



184	00:11:41:03	00:11:45:00

who's going to look at your bookkeeping.

They're going to give you a cue.



185	00:11:45:03	00:11:49:15

I'd say that if you want to work

with investors and scenarios like that



186	00:11:49:18	00:11:52:24

you'll find out that

that's the only possibility.



187	00:11:53:02	00:11:56:11

But keep in mind

that it's not always necessary to change.



188	00:11:56:14	00:12:00:01

You can start off as a

one-man business or general partnership



189	00:12:00:04	00:12:02:22

and change into a legal entity.



190	00:12:03:00	00:12:06:23

But there are also a lot of people

who don't and who stay sole proprietors



191	00:12:07:01	00:12:10:01

or partnerships

their entire business career.



192	00:12:10:04	00:12:13:04

Geta, you actually started as a BV.



193	00:12:13:07	00:12:16:06

Did you see that as an advantage?

And why did you choose for that?



194	00:12:17:20	00:12:22:04

In my case, when I came

to the Netherlands in 2016



195	00:12:22:07	00:12:26:03

I came as part of

a business acceleration programme



196	00:12:26:06	00:12:31:13

and this was the structure 

that they advised us from the very start.



197	00:12:31:16	00:12:35:11

We actually have a holding company



198	00:12:35:14	00:12:37:23

owning the shares inside the BV



199	00:12:38:01	00:12:41:09

and then the investors come along

and there's the whole stock.



200	00:12:41:12	00:12:44:02

So it's a bit more sophisticated structure.



201	00:12:44:05	00:12:47:20

Was it a good or a bad choice?



202	00:12:47:23	00:12:52:18

I'm not sure. It worked for me so far,

so I can't complain.



203	00:12:55:09	00:13:00:12

So for you, it probably was a good choice.

-Yeah, in some ways, yes.



204	00:13:00:15	00:13:04:08

And Johan, would you say

that a transition to BV



205	00:13:04:11	00:13:07:04

is always a logical

next step for sole proprietorship?



206	00:13:07:07	00:13:12:05

No. As I mentioned earlier, for some it is.



207	00:13:12:08	00:13:17:01

And I'd say based on the growing of your

business and your liability increasing



208	00:13:17:04	00:13:21:22

and profit increasing,

that could be a reason to change.



209	00:13:22:00	00:13:27:09

Having the investor on board

could help making that transition.



210	00:13:27:12	00:13:31:07

But for some, it goes from

a sole proprietorship to a legal entity



211	00:13:31:10	00:13:33:14

and for a lot of others it doesn't.



212	00:13:33:17	00:13:37:20

And they're going to stay

the exact same way as they start now.



213	00:13:37:23	00:13:43:19

It's not mandatory. You don't need to

go to a legal entity at some point.



214	00:13:43:22	00:13:48:08

There's a choice and the choice

will depend on your specific situation



215	00:13:48:11	00:13:50:15

and your needs.

-Exactly.



216	00:13:50:18	00:13:55:04

We will come to talk about the situation

of a sole proprietorship and a BV



217	00:13:55:07	00:13:58:14

in the next chapter,

for there's much more to this.



218	00:13:58:17	00:14:01:08

But first, let's continue

with a bird's eye view



219	00:14:01:11	00:14:04:03

on the growing

and expanding of your business.



220	00:14:05:14	00:14:11:03

Business is going well for Mike.

He wants to expand. What are his options?



221	00:14:11:06	00:14:16:16

Should he expand his product range,

hire staff, start trading internationally?



222	00:14:16:19	00:14:19:04

How about opening a branch office?



223	00:14:19:07	00:14:23:21

Expansion comes with risks

and Mike needs to know what they are.



224	00:14:23:24	00:14:26:07

Is there a market for his new products?



225	00:14:26:10	00:14:30:09

Does he need extra insurance

for international business or permits?



226	00:14:30:12	00:14:33:17

Mike needs a growth plan to help him focus.



227	00:14:33:20	00:14:38:14

He visits business.gov.nl,

the point of single contact website



228	00:14:38:17	00:14:43:00

that offers entrepreneurs complete

and up-to-date government information.



229	00:14:43:03	00:14:45:23

Here, he finds all he needs to know.



230	00:14:46:01	00:14:49:22

The market research he's done

is the input for his marketing plan.



231	00:14:50:00	00:14:52:15

He knows which products

show the most promise.



232	00:14:52:18	00:14:55:19

Research into the national

and international market



233	00:14:55:22	00:14:58:08

has shown him where to focus his efforts.



234	00:14:58:11	00:15:01:14

Next, he has to think about promotion.



235	00:15:01:17	00:15:05:01

He needs to consider his target market

to find the right mix



236	00:15:05:04	00:15:08:22

of traditional and online marketing tools.



237	00:15:09:00	00:15:12:03

Financing is an essential part of growing.



238	00:15:12:06	00:15:14:10

Now that Mike knows what he wants to do



239	00:15:14:13	00:15:17:18

he needs to decide

how to finance the expansion.



240	00:15:17:21	00:15:20:20

Go for one source of funding

or for a mixture.



241	00:15:22:03	00:15:25:14

Market research, marketing and finance.



242	00:15:25:17	00:15:29:09

Those are the ingredients

for a growth plan that will work.



243	00:15:29:12	00:15:32:19

Mike knows how to move forward.



244	00:15:32:22	00:15:37:02

And so can you,

with a little help from business.gov.nl.



245	00:15:38:05	00:15:43:01

Do you have general recommendations

for businesses when they think of growing?



246	00:15:43:04	00:15:47:24

I think that it's...

You'll be looking at



247	00:15:48:02	00:15:50:14

what your plans were

right from the beginning.



248	00:15:50:17	00:15:53:16

I think that's a nice starting point.



249	00:15:53:19	00:15:56:24

Once you started your business,

you had a plan, you had a vision



250	00:15:57:02	00:15:58:21

you had somewhere you wanted to go



251	00:15:58:24	00:16:01:23

and where you wanted to end up

with your business.



252	00:16:02:01	00:16:07:01

I think it's always good

to keep an eye on what your plans were.



253	00:16:07:04	00:16:12:02

Are you still on track? Are you still going

in the direction where you want to go?



254	00:16:12:05	00:16:15:15

So for those who wrote a business plan



255	00:16:15:18	00:16:18:17

keep working with that specific plan.



256	00:16:18:20	00:16:22:04

Look at what you estimated on doing.



257	00:16:22:07	00:16:26:16

And on top of that, you'll be looking

into possibilities of growth.



258	00:16:26:19	00:16:29:11

You might want to start

writing a growing plan



259	00:16:29:14	00:16:34:13

saying: I'm here now. I'm still in line

with what I intentionally planned.



260	00:16:34:16	00:16:36:20

But how am I going to go to the next step?



261	00:16:36:23	00:16:41:09

You'll be thinking about

expanding product, expanding market.



262	00:16:41:12	00:16:44:14

You might want to look into

hiring personnel



263	00:16:44:17	00:16:47:19

relocating, all that kind of stuff.



264	00:16:47:22	00:16:51:23

It's the next step and that's the thing

that you'll be thinking of.



265	00:16:52:01	00:16:57:04

Exactly. So this growth plan actually is

sort of key to first taking that next step.



266	00:16:57:07	00:17:01:06

What aspects would you deem most

important to be named in this growth plan?



267	00:17:01:09	00:17:06:00

I'd say look at financing

look at staff, maybe



268	00:17:06:03	00:17:09:05

look at your location,

your legal structure, maybe.



269	00:17:09:08	00:17:13:18

I'd say that those elements are

the things that you need to look into.



270	00:17:13:21	00:17:17:03

Sounds logical. Karim, growth plan,

does that ring a bell?



271	00:17:17:06	00:17:18:24

Did you put anything on paper?

-Of course I did.



272	00:17:19:02	00:17:20:24

But you always have to refine things.



273	00:17:21:02	00:17:24:13

That's about moving your business

one per cent per day. That's my motto.



274	00:17:26:11	00:17:29:22

Any remarks to the growth plan

that Johan just sketched?



275	00:17:30:00	00:17:34:21

Essentially, you do look at your

growth plan. We do put things on paper.



276	00:17:34:24	00:17:38:07

We do take a look at: OK,

what's the next logical step for us?



277	00:17:38:10	00:17:42:13

I'm not a fan of

keeping things super rigid, right?



278	00:17:42:16	00:17:45:14

Because things always change

on a day-to-day basis.



279	00:17:45:17	00:17:49:19

As long as the general direction

doesn't change, I think you're good.



280	00:17:49:22	00:17:53:07

That sounds very logical. How do you make

sure that everyone and of course you



281	00:17:53:10	00:17:55:15

are able to keep focus in that case?



282	00:17:55:18	00:18:01:08

It's very simple. You focus on your clients

and in our case, focus on our audience.



283	00:18:01:11	00:18:04:07

So if you keep those two happy...



284	00:18:04:10	00:18:06:15

Keeping the focus is about

keeping your customers



285	00:18:06:18	00:18:08:22

and your stakeholders happy, essentially.



286	00:18:09:00	00:18:12:10

And if you can do that, you're usually

going to end up in the right way.



287	00:18:12:13	00:18:15:12

That sounds good.

And in that case



288	00:18:15:15	00:18:19:00

are there also any special remarks

for non-Dutch entrepreneurs?



289	00:18:19:03	00:18:23:02

Definitely. Well, the Netherlands is

a really great place to do business.



290	00:18:23:05	00:18:25:11

I would say just know the regulations,

get to know



291	00:18:25:14	00:18:28:00

what sort of company you want to start.



292	00:18:28:03	00:18:32:00

And basically... Because at the end

of the day, a business is about



293	00:18:32:03	00:18:34:09

having customers.

So find your first customers.



294	00:18:34:12	00:18:36:04

And it's quite easy to do

in the Netherlands



295	00:18:36:07	00:18:38:16

just because of

the business-friendly environment.



296	00:18:38:19	00:18:40:19

It's quite good, actually.



297	00:18:40:22	00:18:43:05

That's good to hear.

-I hope that answers your question.



298	00:18:43:08	00:18:45:15

Yeah, definitely.



299	00:18:45:18	00:18:49:08

And now I would like to see

what your strategy base is.



300	00:18:49:11	00:18:51:02

So I have a statement for you.

-Sure.



301	00:18:51:05	00:18:57:00

In the running of your business,

you should always go after opportunities.



302	00:18:57:03	00:18:58:19

Geta, to maybe start with you.



303	00:19:00:15	00:19:05:00

You should definitely seek opportunities,

but you don't take all of them.



304	00:19:05:03	00:19:07:15

You take the ones that work for you



305	00:19:07:18	00:19:11:12

and are in line with your planning

and your business directions.



306	00:19:11:15	00:19:15:20

Because otherwise you just waste

effort and you're all over the place.



307	00:19:15:23	00:19:19:18

So who needs that when you want to

build something specific, right?



308	00:19:19:21	00:19:22:15

Do you agree with that, Karim?

-Absolutely.



309	00:19:22:18	00:19:25:07

Opportunities. It's always

going for the right opportunities.



310	00:19:25:10	00:19:28:05

But I don't agree with being opportunistic.



311	00:19:28:08	00:19:33:04

You see what I mean? It has to match

with your overall vision, absolutely.



312	00:19:33:07	00:19:36:02

And you, Johan, as a business consultant



313	00:19:36:05	00:19:40:19

do you agree with the statement?

-Yeah, they're both right.



314	00:19:40:22	00:19:44:08

It has to work for your situation.



315	00:19:44:11	00:19:47:02

It needs to be you,

your business, your planning.



316	00:19:47:05	00:19:51:03

You need to keep

an eye open for possibilities



317	00:19:51:06	00:19:54:04

but in the end

it needs to suit your business.



318	00:19:54:07	00:19:57:04

And they both make that happen.

So, yeah, I totally agree.



319	00:19:57:07	00:20:01:05

They certainly do.

So, Geta, looking at opportunities



320	00:20:01:08	00:20:05:15

what is your next step with Babymoon?

-Well, right now



321	00:20:08:12	00:20:11:23

we have a lot of work on our plate



322	00:20:12:01	00:20:16:04

because we're literally

in the middle of launching



323	00:20:16:07	00:20:18:10

in both our business directions



324	00:20:18:13	00:20:21:17

because we have a direction for the

consumer market and one for the health.



325	00:20:21:20	00:20:25:17

So first of all, we have

two parallel lines of work.



326	00:20:25:20	00:20:29:13

And the team is small enough at this point



327	00:20:29:16	00:20:33:23

so we can't afford

looking for opportunities



328	00:20:34:01	00:20:36:15

that are not on our radar.



329	00:20:36:18	00:20:40:21

They may be great and amazing and fantastic



330	00:20:40:24	00:20:45:19

but right on this point

of where our business is



331	00:20:45:22	00:20:50:08

we have to put value to

all the prework that has been done



332	00:20:50:11	00:20:55:06

launch, get the goals

that we were looking at.



333	00:20:55:09	00:20:58:23

And then after that,

we can maybe take a phase of



334	00:20:59:01	00:21:01:22

searching for other opportunities



335	00:21:02:00	00:21:08:00

at a stage when we're kind of

transitioning to another step.



336	00:21:08:03	00:21:11:08

Exactly, and I can imagine,

especially with the team you're describing



337	00:21:11:11	00:21:14:20

financing and launching

is really important in this.



338	00:21:14:23	00:21:18:04

But we can dive deeper into that later on.

Great to hear that.



339	00:21:18:07	00:21:22:18

Karim, maybe a question for you again.

What is at the top of your list



340	00:21:22:21	00:21:24:22

the first thing you do

once you actually are a BV?



341	00:21:27:11	00:21:30:10

That's a good question.



342	00:21:30:13	00:21:34:04

It really doesn't change much,

to be honest.



343	00:21:34:07	00:21:37:14

Because I'm going to do

the exact same thing I do every morning.



344	00:21:37:17	00:21:39:18

I'm going to wake up

and think about my customers



345	00:21:39:21	00:21:41:15

and the people I need to help.



346	00:21:41:18	00:21:44:16

So the legal structure

is kind of a transparent thing.



347	00:21:44:19	00:21:48:12

And you probably want to just hand

over all that accounting and tax stuff



348	00:21:48:15	00:21:50:08

to someone who knows what they're doing.



349	00:21:50:11	00:21:55:04

And of course, you can visit our website

for those companies.



350	00:21:55:07	00:21:58:01

Good to mention. Thank you.



351	00:21:58:04	00:22:00:06

Let's summarise what we've discussed.



352	00:22:00:09	00:22:02:09

The big picture of running a business



353	00:22:02:12	00:22:06:04

and reviewing the legal structure

because of the changes.



354	00:22:06:07	00:22:10:22

You should write a growth plan and try

to keep the focus on where you're going.



355	00:22:11:00	00:22:16:02

You can find all the information

you need on business.gov.nl.



356	00:22:20:01	00:22:24:07

Managing your growth

means focusing on several aspects.



357	00:22:24:10	00:22:30:01

Taxes, for example. What changes

in taxes when you become a BV?



358	00:22:30:04	00:22:33:12

We will also discuss

the possibilities of hiring staff.



359	00:22:33:15	00:22:38:04

What type of employment suits

your business best and what would change?



360	00:22:38:07	00:22:40:09

And we will take a look at financing.



361	00:22:40:12	00:22:44:10

What types of financing are there

in the Dutch financing landscape?



362	00:22:44:13	00:22:48:06

We will discuss these topics with Johan

Laffra of the Chamber of Commerce



363	00:22:48:09	00:22:50:13

and our entrepreneurs Geta and Karim.



364	00:22:50:16	00:22:55:21

With these different legal structures,

there are different tax regulations.



365	00:22:55:24	00:22:58:03

How does that work differently?



366	00:22:58:06	00:23:01:20

I think for all legal entities



367	00:23:01:23	00:23:04:17

the one that you all have to work with

is the VAT.



368	00:23:04:20	00:23:08:01

In Dutch called the BTW,

the value added tax.



369	00:23:08:04	00:23:11:15

That's something that works

for every legal entity.



370	00:23:11:18	00:23:15:09

The main difference is

when it comes to income tax



371	00:23:15:12	00:23:17:23

versus the corporate tax.



372	00:23:18:01	00:23:22:15

That's the biggest difference

between the personal entities



373	00:23:22:18	00:23:25:01

and the legal structures.



374	00:23:25:04	00:23:28:12

Does anything change in these taxes

when you become a BV



375	00:23:28:15	00:23:30:14

compared to the other legal structures?



376	00:23:30:17	00:23:35:20

The one that isn't going to change is the

VAT. That works the same for all of them.



377	00:23:35:23	00:23:39:20

The biggest difference is that

once you have a one-man business



378	00:23:39:23	00:23:42:19

a general partnership

or a professional partnership



379	00:23:42:22	00:23:45:00

you pay income tax over all profit.



380	00:23:45:03	00:23:49:03

And the difference

with the legal entity, the BV



381	00:23:49:06	00:23:52:09

is that you'll be paying a salary



382	00:23:52:12	00:23:56:16

which should be what's normal in the market



383	00:23:56:19	00:23:59:15

but it needs to be at least 46.000 euros.



384	00:23:59:18	00:24:03:00

That's money

that you'll pay your income tax over.



385	00:24:03:03	00:24:08:03

But on top of that, if there's more profit,

you'll start paying your corporate tax.



386	00:24:08:06	00:24:10:01

And that's the biggest difference



387	00:24:10:04	00:24:15:04

between the personal entities

and the legal structures.



388	00:24:15:07	00:24:19:17

Does that mean that if I would choose

a BV, I would have to fill in two forms



389	00:24:19:20	00:24:22:12

both one for the income tax

and one for the corporate tax?



390	00:24:22:15	00:24:25:13

It's going to be in

two different tax systems, yes.



391	00:24:25:16	00:24:30:20

So it's in addition to

just the income tax as a sole proprietor.



392	00:24:30:23	00:24:32:23

Well, that's good to know at least.



393	00:24:33:01	00:24:36:23

Are there also tax reductions

that entrepreneurs can use?



394	00:24:37:01	00:24:41:22

Yes, those go for the one-man business

and the partnerships.



395	00:24:42:00	00:24:47:00

If you meet certain criteria, you're

entitled to all kinds of tax discounts.



396	00:24:47:03	00:24:51:22

Those discounts won't apply

if you have a legal structure.



397	00:24:52:00	00:24:57:17

That's normally the reason why your profit

needs to increase on an annual basis



398	00:24:57:20	00:25:04:02

before switching to a legal entity becomes 

interesting from a tax point of view.



399	00:25:04:05	00:25:08:06

So you would say that

becoming a BV in a tax point of view



400	00:25:08:09	00:25:11:16

would be a disadvantage,

but especially if you're making more profit



401	00:25:11:19	00:25:14:08

those will weigh up against each other.

-That's true.



402	00:25:14:11	00:25:18:16

Are there any other deductions for the

other legal structures apart from the BV



403	00:25:18:19	00:25:22:18

that these entrepreneurs

could benefit from before?



404	00:25:22:21	00:25:27:13

I'd say that those are not

part of the actual legal structure



405	00:25:27:16	00:25:29:03

but it depends on your activity.



406	00:25:29:06	00:25:31:21

Once you start doing something



407	00:25:31:24	00:25:35:16

there might be subsidies

or research and development things



408	00:25:35:19	00:25:38:22

that you can use for your business.



409	00:25:39:00	00:25:43:07

But those don't solely

apply to just the legal form.



410	00:25:43:10	00:25:46:23

It has to do with

what it is that you're doing.



411	00:25:47:01	00:25:48:23

That sounds logical.

-OK, that's good.



412	00:25:49:01	00:25:52:01

In that case, let's start

talking about hiring staff.



413	00:25:52:04	00:25:54:12

Geta, do you currently employ staff?



414	00:25:54:15	00:25:57:10

Yeah, we have a team of eight right now.



415	00:25:57:13	00:26:00:20

Well, that's the executives

and the office team.



416	00:26:02:18	00:26:06:11

Everyone is working on their own terms



417	00:26:07:13	00:26:11:04

because we're still

fundraising at this point.



418	00:26:11:07	00:26:15:08

We have people who we hired for zero hours



419	00:26:15:11	00:26:19:11

and then they get paid per job...



420	00:26:19:14	00:26:22:16

Well, number of hours they actually put in.



421	00:26:22:19	00:26:24:13

But then there are people who are full time



422	00:26:24:16	00:26:28:17

and they are very important to us

for growth.



423	00:26:28:20	00:26:33:08

And then there are people

who we deal with externally



424	00:26:33:11	00:26:35:22

and just do contract basis.



425	00:26:36:00	00:26:40:02

So you actually have quite a few

different ways of employment.



426	00:26:40:05	00:26:42:16

Karim, do you also have

these different ways of employment?



427	00:26:42:19	00:26:45:22

Essentially, we work mainly

with freelancers.



428	00:26:46:00	00:26:49:08

So writers, editors,

marketeers, essentially.



429	00:26:49:11	00:26:54:03

And no one is employed by us.

We just have freelance contracts with them.



430	00:26:54:06	00:26:57:08

I'm sure that has its advantages

and different structures.



431	00:26:57:11	00:27:00:07

So maybe, Johan, you could

enlighten us in the theory.



432	00:27:00:10	00:27:03:02

What kind of different types

of employment are there in the Netherlands?



433	00:27:03:05	00:27:06:23

There are so many ways to employ people.



434	00:27:07:01	00:27:09:23

There's a scenario for each and every one.



435	00:27:10:01	00:27:14:17

But I think the biggest difference is: You

can hire someone as an employee directly



436	00:27:14:20	00:27:17:24

so put them on your payroll

and then start working from there.



437	00:27:18:02	00:27:22:04

I hear you saying something about

zero hour contracts, which is fine too.



438	00:27:22:07	00:27:27:22

You'll still be their employer, but

the amount of hours worked is a variable.



439	00:27:28:00	00:27:31:22

That's an option. You can hire people

through temping agencies



440	00:27:32:00	00:27:36:02

through payroll organisations,

and you can even hire independents



441	00:27:36:05	00:27:40:08

like freelancers or ZZP people.



442	00:27:40:11	00:27:42:13

That's all possible.



443	00:27:42:16	00:27:45:02

So you'll be looking at

whatever works for you



444	00:27:45:05	00:27:47:12

and there's probably an option for that.



445	00:27:47:15	00:27:49:20

That's what entrepreneurs

should always keep in mind.



446	00:27:49:23	00:27:51:12

What works best for me?



447	00:27:51:15	00:27:56:12

Maybe that's a great intro for the

next statement I have for entrepreneurs.



448	00:27:56:15	00:28:01:09

The statement is: It is better to have

fixed term contracts than flexible ones.



449	00:28:01:12	00:28:04:04

And I feel you might both

have a different answer to that.



450	00:28:04:07	00:28:06:12

But, Karim, let's start with you.



451	00:28:06:15	00:28:10:03

I'm a big fan of flexibility, so



452	00:28:10:06	00:28:13:08

you know my answer.

-I figured that would be the case.



453	00:28:13:11	00:28:17:11

Will that differ, maybe,

when you become a BV in the future?



454	00:28:17:14	00:28:20:02

Yes and no. We just need to see

how the growth plan goes



455	00:28:20:05	00:28:22:03

and what resources and skills we'll need.



456	00:28:22:06	00:28:24:09

It's all about what's available

readily on the market.



457	00:28:24:12	00:28:28:00

So I can imagine that we will need that.



458	00:28:28:03	00:28:32:05

As the company grows, we will need

new skill sets in the business.



459	00:28:32:08	00:28:33:21

That sounds logical.



460	00:28:33:24	00:28:37:16

And Geta, I believe from your story,

you had several types.



461	00:28:39:23	00:28:43:16

It really depends on who we're talking with



462	00:28:43:19	00:28:48:22

and exactly what's the type

of work that they are putting in.



463	00:28:49:00	00:28:53:14

Like, for example, when there are



464	00:28:53:17	00:28:56:01

things related to intellectual property



465	00:28:56:04	00:28:59:22

because we have a lot of innovation

to what we're doing



466	00:29:00:00	00:29:04:03

so there are probably

rigid terms that we would impose.



467	00:29:04:06	00:29:07:15

But on the other hand,

having flexibility in our collaboration



468	00:29:07:18	00:29:11:12

with anyone who'd work with us,

I think it's pretty important



469	00:29:11:15	00:29:15:03

because you can't just be

a woodpecker about this.



470	00:29:15:06	00:29:18:20

Especially when you're talking about IP,

it's really important, of course.



471	00:29:18:23	00:29:22:02

So there's not one

which you particularly would prefer.



472	00:29:22:05	00:29:24:18

No, I mean, it's situational.



473	00:29:24:21	00:29:28:12

You have to adapt to the situation,

to the task at hand.



474	00:29:28:15	00:29:31:23

So when you started Babymoon,

in the beginning



475	00:29:32:01	00:29:34:21

did you start with the flexible ones

or the fixed term ones?



476	00:29:34:24	00:29:40:05

When I started, I started with

exploring where I landed



477	00:29:40:08	00:29:42:15

let's put it this way.

And it took a while.



478	00:29:42:18	00:29:47:05

At that stage, there was a lot of



479	00:29:47:08	00:29:51:16

research and development done,

by me mostly.



480	00:29:51:19	00:29:56:20

But then when I had to get people

to do something for the company



481	00:29:56:23	00:30:01:20

then it would be a short term,

like task-based agreement.



482	00:30:01:23	00:30:04:03

And it was limited.



483	00:30:04:06	00:30:08:23

Now, at the point when we have people

on an ongoing basis



484	00:30:09:01	00:30:13:03

as part of the team and doing

the Monday meetings and all of that



485	00:30:13:06	00:30:16:11

with a stable team, it's a bit different.



486	00:30:18:00	00:30:20:11

But still we keep the flexibility



487	00:30:20:14	00:30:24:12

and we still have people from

outside the company also providing input.



488	00:30:24:15	00:30:30:12

So right now, it's a matter of

managing what's on the inside



489	00:30:30:15	00:30:35:05

and then all those

satellite supporters that we have.



490	00:30:35:08	00:30:37:24

It sounds like a colourful bunch together.



491	00:30:38:02	00:30:41:02

Do you have any advice

for the entrepreneurs at home



492	00:30:41:05	00:30:44:21

how they could choose

what would best suit their company?



493	00:30:44:24	00:30:48:24

I would think: Just to know exactly



494	00:30:49:02	00:30:51:19

the requirements they have

for the people they hire



495	00:30:51:22	00:30:57:04

and based on those requirements,

adapt the way they hire them.



496	00:30:57:07	00:30:58:22

I think that's good advice.



497	00:30:59:00	00:31:03:00

It's best to know

what you want and upfront.



498	00:31:03:03	00:31:06:04

So then maybe a quick

theoretical question for Johan again.



499	00:31:06:07	00:31:11:03

Can a sole proprietor also hire staff?

-Yes, that's possible.



500	00:31:11:06	00:31:14:10

Is that possible in any legal structure?



501	00:31:14:13	00:31:17:06

The sole proprietor

only says something about



502	00:31:17:09	00:31:19:01

the number of owners

of the actual business.



503	00:31:19:04	00:31:23:01

So there's going to be one owner. As a 

partnership you'll have multiple owners



504	00:31:23:04	00:31:24:24

as a legal entity, both can apply.



505	00:31:25:02	00:31:28:13

But it only has to do with ownership



506	00:31:28:16	00:31:31:09

and both can have employees



507	00:31:31:12	00:31:34:24

in all scenarios that we just mentioned.



508	00:31:35:02	00:31:38:22

I can imagine when you actually

employ these people on fixed terms



509	00:31:39:00	00:31:41:24

it will probably

have financial consequences.



510	00:31:42:02	00:31:45:22

Could you tell us a bit more about that?

-Once you hire someone



511	00:31:46:00	00:31:48:10

then they become your employee.



512	00:31:48:13	00:31:52:08

At that point, you need to

set up an administration.



513	00:31:52:11	00:31:57:17

There are payroll taxes that need to

be done, that need to be set in motion.



514	00:31:57:20	00:32:01:04

For some, it's fine to do it yourself.



515	00:32:01:07	00:32:04:07

I hear a lot of people saying that

now I start working with personnel



516	00:32:04:10	00:32:07:22

the first thing I'm going to do is

hire myself a bookkeeper or an accountant



517	00:32:08:00	00:32:11:10

to make sure that payroll taxes

are taken care of the way it should be.



518	00:32:11:13	00:32:14:22

But yeah, in the end



519	00:32:15:00	00:32:20:23

you'll have to deal with employer stuff.



520	00:32:21:01	00:32:23:12

You touch upon

a really important point there.



521	00:32:23:15	00:32:26:05

Because of course there are many

regulations and rules around that.



522	00:32:26:08	00:32:29:16

So what would you say

are the most important



523	00:32:29:19	00:32:31:12

employment contract terms and conditions



524	00:32:31:15	00:32:33:09

in the Netherlands

that you should be aware of?



525	00:32:33:12	00:32:38:04

First off, it depends on the contract

that you're going to set up.



526	00:32:38:07	00:32:43:02

Will you be setting up someone for 40

hours a week for the rest of their life?



527	00:32:43:05	00:32:46:20

That's a different scenario than

when you start working with people



528	00:32:46:23	00:32:48:23

on a zero hour contract.



529	00:32:49:01	00:32:51:12

So that's the first thing

that you need to look at.



530	00:32:51:15	00:32:54:08

What kind of agreement

am I going to set up?



531	00:32:54:11	00:32:57:05

And once you do there's all kinds of stuff.



532	00:32:57:08	00:33:00:13

You'll be paying your employer wages

for your personnel



533	00:33:00:16	00:33:03:12

the salary that's required.



534	00:33:03:15	00:33:07:05

Most of the time,

people actually want to earn some money.



535	00:33:07:08	00:33:11:14

You'll be paying some benefits

on top of that, as an employer.



536	00:33:11:17	00:33:14:02

So that's important.



537	00:33:14:05	00:33:17:15

But there are all kinds of...



538	00:33:17:18	00:33:21:16

Well, as I just said, there's

the minimum wage to take care of.



539	00:33:21:19	00:33:25:19

You need to set something in place

for holidays and stuff like that.



540	00:33:25:22	00:33:30:07

There's pension. There are

insurances that need to be covered.



541	00:33:30:10	00:33:35:05

All those elements combined

make the official contract.



542	00:33:35:08	00:33:38:24

That's quite a bunch

of rules and regulations to be aware of.



543	00:33:39:02	00:33:42:11

Karim and Geta, any of these

Dutch rules that we have here



544	00:33:42:14	00:33:47:04

did they come as a surprise? Were they

different to what you were used to?



545	00:33:47:07	00:33:50:14

No.

-I worked here already for a few years



546	00:33:50:17	00:33:52:23

so there was a lot of stuff

that I knew about the system.



547	00:33:53:01	00:33:57:13

So it was a little bit easier for me

in that sense.



548	00:33:57:16	00:33:59:06

And for you, Geta?

-No.



549	00:33:59:09	00:34:04:17

These are all points that are valid

and relevant wherever you do business.



550	00:34:04:20	00:34:07:12

So you have to keep all of that in mind.



551	00:34:07:15	00:34:10:02

On the other hand, if I compare



552	00:34:10:05	00:34:15:15

just the paperwork processes here,

it is much less complicated



553	00:34:15:18	00:34:19:00

than in Eastern Europe, where I come from.



554	00:34:19:03	00:34:23:23

But then the fact that it's simplified



555	00:34:24:01	00:34:28:08

has to make you a bit more aware of

what you're putting into that contract.



556	00:34:28:11	00:34:33:02

Because when you're just winging it



557	00:34:33:05	00:34:36:05

that's not a good idea ever.



558	00:34:36:08	00:34:41:08

So at times, it's actually good

to have the possibility to have an adviser



559	00:34:41:11	00:34:45:15

to ask someone for their professional input



560	00:34:45:18	00:34:49:11

if you feel that you're

not qualified well enough



561	00:34:49:14	00:34:52:21

to build the contract yourself.



562	00:34:52:24	00:34:56:18

Because sometimes you can just

not be aware of some aspects



563	00:34:56:21	00:34:59:24

and then that can bite you later on.



564	00:35:00:02	00:35:03:01

It's good that you mention it.

Because just to sort of close this off:



565	00:35:03:04	00:35:06:13

Are there any other aspects

that an entrepreneur should know



566	00:35:06:16	00:35:08:08

when working with staff, Johan?



567	00:35:08:11	00:35:11:10

I'd say always start at the beginning.



568	00:35:11:13	00:35:15:06

As already mentioned

by our two guests today:



569	00:35:15:09	00:35:18:17

What is it that you're looking for?



570	00:35:18:20	00:35:24:19

If you have a very clear picture

of what the future is going to look like



571	00:35:24:22	00:35:28:23

it's going to be much easier

to hire someone directly



572	00:35:29:01	00:35:31:05

for a longer period.



573	00:35:31:08	00:35:35:12

So look at the coming months



574	00:35:35:15	00:35:38:04

maybe the first one, two years.



575	00:35:38:07	00:35:41:02

See where you're planning on going.

And based on that



576	00:35:41:05	00:35:44:00

you can make the right choice

regarding your staff.



577	00:35:44:03	00:35:49:13

So have a clear picture.

It applies to every segment today.



578	00:35:49:16	00:35:52:14

Have a clear picture

of where you want to go.



579	00:35:52:17	00:35:56:02

Think about it and have a clear picture.

And then you can start with your staff.



580	00:35:56:05	00:36:00:05

And I can imagine you have staff

and your employees.



581	00:36:00:08	00:36:02:19

They have to work somewhere.

Do you have an office space, Geta?



582	00:36:02:22	00:36:05:02

Yes, we do have an office space.

I'm very excited about that



583	00:36:05:05	00:36:08:15

because we moved to the office

just a few months back.



584	00:36:08:18	00:36:12:16

So it's really exciting

that the people can come.



585	00:36:12:19	00:36:17:14

There is this point that a big part

of our team works remotely



586	00:36:17:17	00:36:19:15

because they're not located

in the Netherlands.



587	00:36:19:18	00:36:24:24

We have people in Switzerland, in Tanzania,

in Moldova. So it's pretty international.



588	00:36:25:02	00:36:27:19

How did you find them, actually,

if they're from all over the world?



589	00:36:27:22	00:36:31:22

It took a while.

-Did you use LinkedIn?



590	00:36:34:04	00:36:38:08

Some people, yes.

Someone actually I found on LinkedIn.



591	00:36:38:11	00:36:41:23

With others it was just a matter of



592	00:36:42:01	00:36:45:12

engaging the networks that I have.



593	00:36:45:15	00:36:48:19

So, well,

me and then the other people involved.



594	00:36:48:22	00:36:52:14

And it doesn't have to be

LinkedIn necessarily.



595	00:36:52:17	00:36:56:08

A network is a network.

It's just human connection.



596	00:36:56:11	00:36:59:05

So that's the biggest part, probably.

A good network.



597	00:36:59:08	00:37:01:07

And through that, find the right employees.



598	00:37:01:10	00:37:04:16

Is that the same way you do it,

Karim, with your freelancers?



599	00:37:04:19	00:37:09:09

In some way, yes. The thing is,

we already have a huge following.



600	00:37:09:12	00:37:13:09

I mean we have close to 110,

115,000 followers



601	00:37:13:12	00:37:15:18

that's expats living and working

in the Netherlands.



602	00:37:15:21	00:37:19:05

So for us to recruit talent,

we just use our own network.



603	00:37:19:08	00:37:21:23

Already people come to us and solicit us.



604	00:37:22:01	00:37:25:00

Hey, can I write for you?

Can I work with you?



605	00:37:25:03	00:37:27:14

I've had that luxury, actually.

So that's great.



606	00:37:27:17	00:37:30:10

And I have some incredible people

on my team that I'm really proud of



607	00:37:30:13	00:37:33:04

and it's been really a nice journey.



608	00:37:33:07	00:37:35:08

So actually, once again

it comes down to a network.



609	00:37:35:11	00:37:38:17

But in this case, the fact

that everyone knows you.



610	00:37:38:20	00:37:41:19

'Luxeprobleem', as they say in Dutch.



611	00:37:41:22	00:37:45:01

Because, Geta, for you again

with hiring staff



612	00:37:45:04	00:37:48:09

what are the most important aspects

you look at when hiring a new person?



613	00:37:48:12	00:37:52:20

at this point of the development

of the company



614	00:37:52:23	00:37:57:24

we're definitely looking

at people who can deal with



615	00:37:58:02	00:37:59:23

uncertainty.



616	00:38:02:15	00:38:05:20

Uncertainty is not necessarily

a 2020 thing.



617	00:38:05:23	00:38:08:24

Especially when you're

dealing with start-ups and innovation.



618	00:38:09:02	00:38:12:22

We're looking at people

who can self-organise



619	00:38:13:00	00:38:16:19

and can be goal driven.



620	00:38:16:22	00:38:20:11

That's probably a common denominator

that we're looking at.



621	00:38:20:14	00:38:25:20

But then also having good background

in the specific work that they are doing.



622	00:38:25:23	00:38:29:10

That's important.

-That's really important.



623	00:38:29:13	00:38:33:14

Look what they've done and see if they

can build on from there in your company.



624	00:38:33:17	00:38:37:20

I believe we've got quite a lot of tips

for entrepreneurs regarding hiring.



625	00:38:37:23	00:38:40:04

So let's go to financing.



626	00:38:40:07	00:38:43:08

Could you elaborate on the types of

financing there are in the Netherlands?



627	00:38:46:05	00:38:49:22

You can ask friends and family



628	00:38:50:00	00:38:52:12

I think that's the easiest one.



629	00:38:52:15	00:38:55:24

There are micro credits

that you can apply for



630	00:38:56:02	00:38:58:22

there are bank loans, there are investors



631	00:38:59:00	00:39:02:14

that you can get into your business.



632	00:39:02:17	00:39:06:15

I'd say that for every scenario



633	00:39:06:18	00:39:12:11

there is a possibility

to gain money somewhere.



634	00:39:12:14	00:39:15:13

Quite a number of ways to get to financing.



635	00:39:15:16	00:39:19:02

Maybe it's interesting to have a statement

for our entrepreneurs again.



636	00:39:19:05	00:39:24:20

The statement this time is:

I recommend looking for funding.



637	00:39:24:23	00:39:28:07

It depends.

-Of course, it depends.



638	00:39:28:10	00:39:32:03

Because once you take

in financing from somewhere else



639	00:39:32:06	00:39:35:24

there are restrictions

and terms to that financing



640	00:39:36:02	00:39:39:13

to finding financing.

Do you actually need the funds?



641	00:39:39:16	00:39:43:20

Because raising money for the sake of

raising money without a purpose...



642	00:39:43:23	00:39:46:08

You see a lot of entrepreneurs,

they got their pitch deck really good



643	00:39:46:11	00:39:48:20

'I raise so much'.

But in reality



644	00:39:48:23	00:39:52:07

in my view,

the best investor is a paying customer.



645	00:39:52:10	00:39:53:22

That's very true.



646	00:39:54:00	00:39:57:20

Geta, how do you look at this?

-I agree with Karim completely.



647	00:40:00:05	00:40:03:22

Most of the times, it's best

to have the paying customer.



648	00:40:04:00	00:40:07:18

And then on the other hand,

when you have to deal with



649	00:40:07:21	00:40:11:19

like in my case, because we have

all the research and development



650	00:40:11:22	00:40:17:07

because we're dealing with electronic

textile and things that are like...



651	00:40:17:10	00:40:20:07

A physical product.

-Aside from being a physical product



652	00:40:20:10	00:40:24:21

it's also innovation and it's not

something that's common and widespread.



653	00:40:24:24	00:40:30:04

You have to fund the innovation

in various ways.



654	00:40:30:07	00:40:34:09

You have to figure out how to

build it, because it's a long process.



655	00:40:34:12	00:40:37:15

You have to build it, you have to

certify it, blah blah blah.



656	00:40:37:18	00:40:41:10

So the good opportunity here



657	00:40:41:13	00:40:45:13

is actually the possibility to fund R&D.



658	00:40:45:16	00:40:50:15

Because there are a bunch of subsidies

for that, a bunch of grant opportunities.



659	00:40:50:18	00:40:56:05

There are even loans that



660	00:40:56:08	00:40:59:23

are non-dilutive, so then you can still

keep the ownership of your company.



661	00:41:00:01	00:41:02:21

But then again, you can also

have access to venture capital



662	00:41:02:24	00:41:06:02

which is a useful tool.



663	00:41:06:05	00:41:09:10

But again, it depends very much

on what you're doing.



664	00:41:09:13	00:41:14:01

Because if I remember correctly, you are 

currently in the process of funding, right?



665	00:41:14:04	00:41:15:16

Yes.



666	00:41:15:19	00:41:18:17

How did you get to the choice

of which funding you were going for?



667	00:41:21:05	00:41:26:02

In my case, aside from the fact

that we have a lot of R&D in our company



668	00:41:26:05	00:41:28:15

I still have a physical product



669	00:41:28:18	00:41:32:12

that is already there

and ready for market release.



670	00:41:32:15	00:41:35:16

Because the innovative versions, well



671	00:41:35:19	00:41:40:15

they are all innovative,

but the electronic connected versions



672	00:41:40:18	00:41:44:21

they still have to go through

a lot of work.



673	00:41:44:24	00:41:48:02

But we have a product ready

for release to market



674	00:41:48:05	00:41:51:18

which means that I can have

my company income



675	00:41:51:21	00:41:55:14

and I can have paying clients

on top of the R&D part.



676	00:41:55:17	00:41:57:23

So that's a specific of my company



677	00:41:58:01	00:42:00:05

because I have colleagues

in the start-up world



678	00:42:00:08	00:42:04:20

who only have the R&D

for the first three years



679	00:42:04:23	00:42:07:15

and they can't generate income.



680	00:42:07:18	00:42:10:11

So you really looked for

R&D funding in the beginning.



681	00:42:12:06	00:42:16:13

We are looking for R&D funding

at this point as well.



682	00:42:16:16	00:42:19:24

But, so...

Yeah.



683	00:42:20:02	00:42:22:00

And how did you know

how to find this R&D funding?



684	00:42:22:03	00:42:27:02

Did you have a network again?

-That was a process. That was a challenge.



685	00:42:27:05	00:42:32:03

To be honest, I had three years

that were really, really financially tough.



686	00:42:32:06	00:42:35:04

We had to go through a very tight belt



687	00:42:35:07	00:42:38:16

let's put it this way, period.



688	00:42:38:19	00:42:42:10

The bootstrapping phase.

-Oh, yeah.



689	00:42:42:13	00:42:46:10

But then again, it wasn't easy



690	00:42:46:13	00:42:49:12

but on the other hand,

I think it's important



691	00:42:49:15	00:42:53:01

not to take on funding

before you know where you're going.



692	00:42:53:04	00:42:56:13

Before you can handle it as a company.



693	00:42:58:16	00:43:02:24

We had to explore,

so we took our moment there.



694	00:43:03:02	00:43:05:21

That's really good advice.

-But then again



695	00:43:05:24	00:43:11:22

we also took that time period

to explore the possibilities for funding



696	00:43:12:00	00:43:15:24

because here in the Netherlands,

it does give you a lot of opportunities



697	00:43:16:02	00:43:17:14

that are on a spectrum.



698	00:43:17:17	00:43:21:17

You can literally go from subsidies

to grants and loans.



699	00:43:21:20	00:43:24:20

So aside from just the money coming in



700	00:43:24:23	00:43:28:23

you have to also take into account: Do you

want to keep shares in your company?



701	00:43:29:01	00:43:32:18

Do you want to deal with other people

telling you how to run your business?



702	00:43:32:21	00:43:37:11

Do you want to put in an effort

and pay out loans?



703	00:43:37:14	00:43:41:10

So you have to have a funding strategy.

-Yes.



704	00:43:41:13	00:43:45:22

Not just like: Oh, there's cash,

let's go for it.



705	00:43:46:00	00:43:49:07

I can imagine that this strategy,

had to be written up in a written plan



706	00:43:49:10	00:43:51:21

for when you were looking for this funding.



707	00:43:51:24	00:43:54:11

You have to put things on paper



708	00:43:54:14	00:43:57:13

because when you go to

any funding organisation



709	00:43:57:16	00:44:01:16

they will not give you the money

just for the pretty eyes.



710	00:44:01:19	00:44:06:22

That's very true.

-You have to turn it into a document.



711	00:44:07:00	00:44:10:14

But before you put it on paper, you

have to know what you're putting on paper



712	00:44:10:17	00:44:15:23

and then you have to do the research

before that. So it's a backtracking thing.



713	00:44:16:01	00:44:18:01

Karim, do you recognise this situation?



714	00:44:18:04	00:44:21:04

Do you have entrepreneurs in your network

that are looking for funding like this?



715	00:44:21:07	00:44:24:17

Sure, we see it all the time. And what's

actually interesting in the Netherlands



716	00:44:24:20	00:44:29:17

there's actually advisers that can

go and help you raise money.



717	00:44:29:20	00:44:32:22

Of course they take a...

It's for a price, of course.



718	00:44:33:00	00:44:37:11

But that's a profession that's readily

available to help people raise money.



719	00:44:37:14	00:44:41:11

So we're quite lucky setting up

businesses in the Netherlands, actually.



720	00:44:41:14	00:44:44:14

Would you advise entrepreneurs

to also look at one of these coaches?



721	00:44:44:17	00:44:48:06

Yeah, absolutely. A hundred per cent.

-Definitely.



722	00:44:48:09	00:44:51:21

Johan, can you also relate

to the answers Geta and Karim just gave?



723	00:44:51:24	00:44:57:17

I was wondering, did any of you contact me?



724	00:44:57:20	00:45:02:23

Because we as an organisation

as well can help in the early process



725	00:45:03:01	00:45:06:13

of getting possibilities out



726	00:45:06:16	00:45:10:20

and maybe even

refer you in a certain direction.



727	00:45:10:23	00:45:14:06

But, yeah, I totally agree

with what was just told.



728	00:45:14:09	00:45:18:19

And again, keep an eye out

for what it is that you need.



729	00:45:18:22	00:45:20:19

I think that's a very valuable point.



730	00:45:20:22	00:45:25:16

It's not just about raising

as much capital as you want and can



731	00:45:25:19	00:45:30:14

but there's a need

and that needs to be clear.



732	00:45:30:17	00:45:33:20

Once you know that, you can decide

which way you're going to go.



733	00:45:33:23	00:45:38:10

That makes it a lot easier to write down

all the necessary paperwork.



734	00:45:38:13	00:45:41:07

So I totally agree.

-That's good to hear.



735	00:45:41:10	00:45:43:06

Then the advice can be followed.



736	00:45:43:09	00:45:45:15

We've been looking at

taxes for entrepreneurs



737	00:45:45:18	00:45:48:08

and what changes when you become a BV.



738	00:45:48:11	00:45:52:03

And we looked at the forms of employment

in the Netherlands



739	00:45:52:06	00:45:56:06

and the things that you should take

into account when you start hiring staff.



740	00:45:57:18	00:46:00:17

If you want to know more

about financing your business



741	00:46:00:20	00:46:04:13

we recommend you watch our webinar

on this specific topic.



742	00:46:04:16	00:46:08:11

There, you learn all about

the Dutch financial climate



743	00:46:08:14	00:46:11:08

and preparing to apply for Dutch funding



744	00:46:11:11	00:46:16:21

and more about the financing options in

the Netherlands we discussed briefly today.



745	00:46:16:24	00:46:21:08

You can find this

at our website business.gov.nl.



746	00:46:25:06	00:46:28:19

In the last part of this webinar,

we take a closer look



747	00:46:28:22	00:46:30:20

at some important business processes



748	00:46:30:23	00:46:34:08

such as digitisation and cybersecurity.



749	00:46:34:11	00:46:39:20

And how do you prepare if you want to

expand your Dutch business internationally?



750	00:46:39:23	00:46:42:18

We will conclude with the advice

that our guests have



751	00:46:42:21	00:46:45:24

for you as an entrepreneur

with a growing business.



752	00:46:46:02	00:46:50:06

Johan, we've talked about taxes,

about staff and financing.



753	00:46:50:09	00:46:52:09

What are the really important processes



754	00:46:52:12	00:46:55:11

that you should look at as an entrepreneur

for growing your business?



755	00:46:55:14	00:47:01:04

I'd say that it's actually the two things

that you just mentioned.



756	00:47:01:07	00:47:04:09

The world becomes

more and more digital these days.



757	00:47:04:12	00:47:10:03

There's a new privacy law in place with a

lot of requirements that you need to meet:



758	00:47:10:06	00:47:14:08

the AVG in Dutch, GDPR in English.



759	00:47:14:11	00:47:16:15

That's really something that has been here



760	00:47:16:18	00:47:21:13

for the last few months, the last year.



761	00:47:21:16	00:47:25:10

So that's really something

to take into consideration.



762	00:47:25:13	00:47:29:24

There's cybercrime these

days that becomes more and more...



763	00:47:33:02	00:47:36:12

That's more here

than it was a few years ago.



764	00:47:36:15	00:47:40:02

So be careful with what you do digitally



765	00:47:40:05	00:47:44:16

to avoid those scenarios.



766	00:47:44:19	00:47:47:19

I think that's an important thing.



767	00:47:47:22	00:47:53:20

And also, once you start

growing international, I think that's



768	00:47:53:23	00:47:58:23

a huge topic to talk about.



769	00:47:59:01	00:48:02:13

Yes, I can imagine.

Especially the part that digitisation...



770	00:48:02:16	00:48:05:18

Your work has changed a bit

in the last few years.



771	00:48:05:21	00:48:10:08

So maybe ask the entrepreneurs.

These aspects that Johan just mentioned



772	00:48:10:11	00:48:13:19

do you pay attention to those as well?

-Yeah, absolutely.



773	00:48:15:07	00:48:17:07

Absolutely, yeah.



774	00:48:17:10	00:48:22:03

In terms of cybersecurity, it's something

that you have to invest in and be careful.



775	00:48:22:06	00:48:25:20

I mean, we can't see it when there's

attacks and stuff on our website.



776	00:48:25:23	00:48:28:15

Additionally, in terms of digitisation



777	00:48:28:18	00:48:32:05

the Covid pandemic has forced us

to do only webinars now.



778	00:48:32:08	00:48:35:16

So unfortunately we're not doing

in-person events for a while.



779	00:48:35:19	00:48:38:20

And the data privacy, yes,

you have to respect all the rules



780	00:48:38:23	00:48:42:17

tell people what you're doing

with their data and get their consent.



781	00:48:42:20	00:48:46:17

All these aspects

are very real in today's world.



782	00:48:46:20	00:48:49:13

Yes, and they're becoming

more real by the day.



783	00:48:49:16	00:48:52:07

Yes, especially the digitisation,

just because of the situation.



784	00:48:52:10	00:48:56:06

And Geta, especially because you

use electronics in your product



785	00:48:56:09	00:49:01:17

I can imagine that it's also...

-First of all, you can't avoid...



786	00:49:01:20	00:49:06:21

You can't pretend that these regulations

don't exist and not take them into account.



787	00:49:06:24	00:49:11:20

But yeah, definitely a lot of...



788	00:49:11:23	00:49:15:14

A lot of the parts of the business are

going online and you have to go digital



789	00:49:15:17	00:49:19:20

in many aspects,

even if you have a physical product.



790	00:49:19:23	00:49:22:17

Because there is the communication

and the interaction with your client



791	00:49:22:20	00:49:27:22

and that's one of the main stakeholders

anyway when you're doing business.



792	00:49:28:00	00:49:30:22

But then when we're talking electronics



793	00:49:31:00	00:49:34:04

I do have to deal with sensors.



794	00:49:34:07	00:49:38:18

Of course, it's still in development.



795	00:49:38:21	00:49:42:21

Of course, it has to go through

certification processes.



796	00:49:42:24	00:49:47:17

But in our design process,

we keep that in mind



797	00:49:47:20	00:49:50:24

so it's getting secured by design



798	00:49:51:02	00:49:54:14

in terms of

how we're developing the software.



799	00:49:54:17	00:49:59:21

It's very sensitive information,

because we're looking at the health



800	00:49:59:24	00:50:03:20

of infants, so



801	00:50:03:23	00:50:07:08

it can't get any more intimate than that.



802	00:50:07:11	00:50:10:19

So you don't only have to look

at digitisation for your company



803	00:50:10:22	00:50:14:08

but also for the product.

So you have it both ways.



804	00:50:14:11	00:50:17:05

Good luck with

trying to figure that out, then.



805	00:50:17:08	00:50:22:10

Well, we're taking our time.

-Good. Smart plan.



806	00:50:22:13	00:50:25:04

Because other than just digitisation



807	00:50:25:07	00:50:27:10

Johan, what other advice

would you give entrepreneurs



808	00:50:27:13	00:50:30:09

who are thinking

of taking their Dutch business abroad?



809	00:50:33:00	00:50:36:00

Look at the potential market

where you're planning on going.



810	00:50:36:03	00:50:41:11

Look at: Is there a need for

the product that you're providing?



811	00:50:41:14	00:50:46:16

Do you have the necessary market knowledge



812	00:50:46:19	00:50:49:21

of that specific country

or will you be needing local people



813	00:50:49:24	00:50:53:07

to help you to get it up and running?



814	00:50:53:10	00:50:58:00

I think those elements are very important.



815	00:50:58:03	00:51:00:23

And I guess that in your case



816	00:51:01:01	00:51:04:03

actually coming from

another country, that's helpful.



817	00:51:04:06	00:51:08:06

You'll probably have your network,

people who can help you



818	00:51:08:09	00:51:10:19

gain access to the foreign market.



819	00:51:10:22	00:51:12:23

So use that, use your network.



820	00:51:13:01	00:51:17:03

And if you don't have one yourself,

there's all kinds of international networks



821	00:51:17:06	00:51:19:06

that you can hook up with.



822	00:51:19:09	00:51:24:20

The Enterprise Europe Network, for one,

is one that can actually help you



823	00:51:24:23	00:51:27:03

launch a product in a different country.



824	00:51:27:06	00:51:29:15

Yes, a really important one.

Good that you mentioned it, Johan.



825	00:51:29:18	00:51:33:24

This webinar is too short

for all the information.



826	00:51:34:02	00:51:39:01

But on business.gov.nl,

you'll find all the information you need



827	00:51:39:04	00:51:43:17

along with specific tips for finding

customers and business partners.



828	00:51:43:20	00:51:46:23

For example,

the Netherlands Enterprise Agency



829	00:51:47:01	00:51:48:24

offers the business partner scan



830	00:51:49:02	00:51:53:03

to quickly provide you with an overview

of potential business partners



831	00:51:53:06	00:51:55:19

in your chosen country.



832	00:51:55:22	00:51:59:18

Geta, which other markets, apart

from the Netherlands, are you looking at?



833	00:51:59:21	00:52:04:08

Actually, we're looking at Scandinavia

for a bunch of reasons



834	00:52:04:11	00:52:09:11

and we have connected

with a distribution company there



835	00:52:09:14	00:52:11:01

for the consumer market.



836	00:52:11:04	00:52:15:19

But then for

the health part of the business



837	00:52:15:22	00:52:19:18

we are looking right now...

Because we are tackling infant mortality



838	00:52:19:21	00:52:25:12

so we looked at a region

that has that specific problem



839	00:52:25:15	00:52:28:01

and that's why we are going to Tanzania



840	00:52:28:04	00:52:31:17

and we are launching there.



841	00:52:31:20	00:52:36:00

That's amazing to be launching.

-We're launching our initial study



842	00:52:36:03	00:52:40:00

in a hospital there,

because we're making a tool for



843	00:52:40:03	00:52:43:05

preventing neonatal mortality.



844	00:52:43:08	00:52:45:21

But also on top of that



845	00:52:45:24	00:52:50:05

because of the nature

of the work that we're doing



846	00:52:50:08	00:52:53:16

I had actually really good support

from the Dutch government



847	00:52:53:19	00:52:58:08

in connecting the business

to the United Nations programmes.



848	00:52:58:11	00:53:02:21

And that was super valuable.

I can't state the value of that.



849	00:53:02:24	00:53:05:04

Wow.

So what does that bring you then?



850	00:53:05:07	00:53:09:10

Literally...

When was it? Last year.



851	00:53:10:18	00:53:16:05

I had the connection with the RVO officer



852	00:53:16:08	00:53:19:15

who is in charge of

connecting Dutch companies



853	00:53:19:18	00:53:21:23

to the UN programmes.



854	00:53:22:01	00:53:27:20

And then I became part of this procurement 

seminar with the United Nations.



855	00:53:27:23	00:53:33:19

I joined the Dutch delegation

to Copenhagen.



856	00:53:33:22	00:53:37:03

Wow, that's quite amazing.

-So then we got to register



857	00:53:37:06	00:53:38:19

as a supplier for the United Nations



858	00:53:38:22	00:53:44:08

which is a really high-value opportunity

for a company like mine.



859	00:53:44:11	00:53:47:23

That's good to know, that these types

of connections can come from that.



860	00:53:48:01	00:53:51:05

So, Karim,

looking three years into the future



861	00:53:51:08	00:53:54:04

what will your goals be?

And maybe in connection with, of course



862	00:53:54:07	00:53:56:15

the government that can take you there?



863	00:53:56:18	00:54:00:12

Honestly, we're looking to

just continue to grow



864	00:54:00:15	00:54:03:06

and, of course,

grow to other countries as well.



865	00:54:03:09	00:54:08:04

The whole system in the Netherlands

is very supportive for entrepreneurship.



866	00:54:08:07	00:54:13:03

From just having access to capital,

having access to labour force



867	00:54:13:06	00:54:15:10

having access to information



868	00:54:15:13	00:54:18:07

and everything readily available

in English as well.



869	00:54:18:10	00:54:21:15

It's just the whole

business mindset, I think



870	00:54:21:18	00:54:24:14

in this whole infrastructure

that we call the Netherlands



871	00:54:24:17	00:54:26:17

that is super helpful.



872	00:54:26:20	00:54:29:01

So that was actually

one of the easiest aspects



873	00:54:29:04	00:54:32:21

because it's so set up in the Netherlands.

-It's just super easy.



874	00:54:32:24	00:54:36:05

It's really incredible.

-Well, that's good to hear, of course.



875	00:54:36:08	00:54:39:19

In retrospect, if that was

one of the easiest and best parts



876	00:54:39:22	00:54:42:21

what was one of the

biggest challenges you had to overcome?



877	00:54:42:24	00:54:45:23

In all honesty, when I started doing this



878	00:54:46:01	00:54:49:11

I just did it out of love

and out of kindness to help people



879	00:54:49:14	00:54:52:14

but that doesn't pay the bills.



880	00:54:52:17	00:54:56:12

So actually,

just to know that I had a business



881	00:54:56:15	00:55:00:10

and what to do to make it

the successful business than it is today



882	00:55:00:13	00:55:04:08

that was really the challenge,

finding what I need to do.



883	00:55:04:11	00:55:07:18

And that's the thing. Knowledge

and knowing what you need to do



884	00:55:07:21	00:55:12:07

is probably, in my opinion,

the most valuable thing.



885	00:55:12:10	00:55:17:07

It's more valuable than money.

It's more valuable than a lot of things.



886	00:55:17:10	00:55:19:23

And I think it's also good

for entrepreneurs at home to hear



887	00:55:20:01	00:55:22:22

that you don't have to

start off with huge capital



888	00:55:23:00	00:55:26:21

but first off with a passion

and that's your driving force.



889	00:55:26:24	00:55:29:08

Because, Geta,

in retrospect for you as well



890	00:55:29:11	00:55:32:14

what was your biggest challenge

in starting Babymoon?



891	00:55:32:17	00:55:37:01

My biggest challenge was



892	00:55:37:04	00:55:41:04

well, it wasn't a challenge. It was just a

process that took a lot of time and effort.



893	00:55:41:07	00:55:44:14

It was figuring out the landscape.



894	00:55:44:17	00:55:49:13

Because I did come to the Netherlands

and I was on the programme.



895	00:55:49:16	00:55:52:00

The programme was done with



896	00:55:52:03	00:55:57:09

and then it took a while to set

up a network here specifically.



897	00:55:57:12	00:56:00:05

And because I'm pretty niche



898	00:56:00:08	00:56:03:15

it took a while

before I found the right people.



899	00:56:05:06	00:56:09:15

Is it something that you would have done 

differently, if you're looking back at it?



900	00:56:09:18	00:56:11:24

I don't think so.



901	00:56:14:08	00:56:18:00

In finding the right people, that you say:

If I would have known this, then...



902	00:56:18:03	00:56:22:11

For example, it's just...



903	00:56:22:14	00:56:26:20

This is not something to put blame on, but



904	00:56:26:23	00:56:31:00

I have a pretty good knowledge

of the international landscape



905	00:56:31:03	00:56:33:18

of the baby carrier world.



906	00:56:33:21	00:56:37:11

And I am fluent in Romanian,

English and Russian



907	00:56:37:14	00:56:39:18

but I didn't know Dutch.



908	00:56:39:21	00:56:43:02

So it was...



909	00:56:43:05	00:56:45:16

But this is a market-specific situation.



910	00:56:45:19	00:56:48:06

I came here



911	00:56:48:09	00:56:53:14

and I was looking for baby carriers

in the Netherlands and I found nothing.



912	00:56:53:17	00:56:56:04

And then I would ask

people in the programme



913	00:56:56:07	00:57:00:24

but they were business-related people,

so they had no network to that.



914	00:57:01:02	00:57:05:02

So it took me actually over a year,

because I didn't know the language



915	00:57:05:05	00:57:07:17

and I didn't have

the local network connections.



916	00:57:07:20	00:57:12:19

But in the end, I have done that.

Maybe it would have been nice



917	00:57:12:22	00:57:16:04

if I did that faster,

but that's that. That's how things are.



918	00:57:16:07	00:57:18:04

So many processes take time.



919	00:57:18:07	00:57:23:00

It's also good to know...

-It turned out that the specific language



920	00:57:23:03	00:57:27:18

in the niche that I'm working in,

is very different in Dutch.



921	00:57:27:21	00:57:30:23

But this is a case-specific situation.



922	00:57:31:01	00:57:34:01

So, Karim, did you also

have a language barrier problem?



923	00:57:34:04	00:57:37:14

I speak Dutch.

-Oh, that's true. So you didn't have it.



924	00:57:37:17	00:57:42:12

But actually, because I'm kind of catering

to an international audience



925	00:57:42:15	00:57:45:23

and my clients are catering

to that same audience



926	00:57:46:01	00:57:47:21

all their communication is done in English.



927	00:57:47:24	00:57:52:07

So it's actually really authentic

when I'm just speaking in my native tongue.



928	00:57:52:10	00:57:55:17

I mean, I can read it.

Basic Dutch is helpful



929	00:57:55:20	00:57:59:00

but it's not mandatory to have a

successful business in the Netherlands.



930	00:57:59:03	00:58:03:04

I can name you tons of expats that I know

that have crazy successful businesses



931	00:58:03:07	00:58:06:19

and their Dutch is niet zo best.



932	00:58:06:22	00:58:09:04

That's good to hear, especially because



933	00:58:09:07	00:58:11:22

we're also talking about

expanding our business internationally.



934	00:58:12:00	00:58:15:24

The language barrier, of course,

in some specific cases could be a thing.



935	00:58:16:02	00:58:20:14

But usually, I mean,

English is quite world-wide spoken.



936	00:58:20:17	00:58:23:14

So how do you think, Karim, first off



937	00:58:23:17	00:58:28:02

you will be able to manage your

international growth in the upcoming years?



938	00:58:28:05	00:58:31:21

With calm and serenity,

meditation and breathing.



939	00:58:31:24	00:58:36:05

It's all about having good people

around you. It really is that.



940	00:58:36:08	00:58:39:15

I cannot stress the fact. Have the people

you click with, people you can trust



941	00:58:39:18	00:58:43:10

people you can rely on

and, you know, you give the trust



942	00:58:43:13	00:58:48:21

and you just do your best and focus on

your clients and the people you work with.



943	00:58:48:24	00:58:51:11

Would you agree with that, Geta?

-Yeah, definitely.



944	00:58:51:14	00:58:54:11

Is there also maybe a difference

when you're growing



945	00:58:54:14	00:58:58:15

and broadening your view internationally

when looking for funding?



946	00:58:58:18	00:59:02:17

Well, you always have to work

with the people you click with.



947	00:59:02:20	00:59:07:04

Wherever you go,

because otherwise it's just



948	00:59:09:01	00:59:10:24

eating you up. You can't.



949	00:59:11:02	00:59:14:23

That's very true and good to mention.

-If you want to



950	00:59:15:01	00:59:19:13

achieve your goal, you can't afford

putting yourself under stress.



951	00:59:19:16	00:59:22:17

You don't throw yourself under the bus.



952	00:59:22:20	00:59:25:20

You have to manage the business



953	00:59:25:23	00:59:28:19

but you also have to manage your own state



954	00:59:28:22	00:59:34:08

and your own sanity and health

so that you can be in a good shape



955	00:59:34:11	00:59:36:21

for the time when you achieve

that goal you're working towards.



956	00:59:36:24	00:59:40:24

So it's important.

-The people around you are most important.



957	00:59:41:02	00:59:44:03

Who you're working with,

but also your funding partners.



958	00:59:44:06	00:59:45:19

That we should really keep in mind.



959	00:59:45:22	00:59:50:07

So Karim, we've heard you talking,

of course, about your Expat Republic.



960	00:59:50:10	00:59:54:22

The walking network, where you were

able to connect people and move on.



961	00:59:55:00	00:59:58:21

But I was really interested:

How did you find people that help you?



962	01:00:01:05	01:00:04:05

Actually the same way.

Via via, through people that I know



963	01:00:04:08	01:00:06:04

or through our own network.



964	01:00:06:07	01:00:10:04

So literally, when I need help

with something, I ask my community.



965	01:00:10:07	01:00:13:14

So Expat Republic.

-Yeah. So that already is so wide



966	01:00:13:17	01:00:16:09

that I can get a lot of reach

and get the help that I need.



967	01:00:16:12	01:00:21:07

It's all about being transparent,

saying: Hey, I need this help.



968	01:00:21:10	01:00:24:07

And you know, you put out positivity

into the world, it comes back to you.



969	01:00:24:10	01:00:27:11

It really is that simple.



970	01:00:27:14	01:00:32:22

Would that also be your advice for all the 

entrepreneurs watching at home right now?



971	01:00:33:00	01:00:35:19

Yes, definitely. Try and connect

with as many people as you can.



972	01:00:35:22	01:00:39:18

Go to networking events,

join different expat Facebook groups



973	01:00:39:21	01:00:43:03

join Dutch groups,

you know, the local community.



974	01:00:43:06	01:00:46:00

Get involved,

get to know people, ask around.



975	01:00:46:03	01:00:49:21

There is a culture in the Netherlands,

a very entrepreneurial culture



976	01:00:49:24	01:00:54:04

about helping one another and that's

very deeply rooted in the culture.



977	01:00:54:07	01:00:58:01

So it was quite easy for me

to get a lot of help.



978	01:00:58:04	01:01:02:06

It's just that business trading mindset

is so omnipresent. So we're very lucky.



979	01:01:02:09	01:01:05:24

And I can imagine

that's different in other countries.



980	01:01:06:02	01:01:09:02

So would that advice be different

if you look outside of the Netherlands?



981	01:01:09:05	01:01:14:06

I think on a general level, there's

a lot of commonality around the world.



982	01:01:14:09	01:01:16:21

People are generally

good people and want to help.



983	01:01:16:24	01:01:20:01

I just find that

the whole business and trade



984	01:01:20:04	01:01:23:15

is so ingrained in the Dutch culture,

also historically.



985	01:01:23:18	01:01:26:01

So I think just the ease

of doing these things



986	01:01:26:04	01:01:29:06

and it's also very efficient

and everything is very well structured.



987	01:01:29:09	01:01:33:00

So it's not so much like...

The structure here is really good



988	01:01:33:03	01:01:37:16

when you compare it to other countries.

That's really the main thing.



989	01:01:37:19	01:01:40:22

Well, that's good to hear.

Glad we are here.



990	01:01:41:00	01:01:43:19

Geta, do you have a last bit of advice

for the entrepreneurs



991	01:01:43:22	01:01:46:08

in how to take that next step?



992	01:01:46:11	01:01:50:12

That next step.

Well, just keep going.



993	01:01:54:11	01:01:58:07

Find your goal and then work towards it.



994	01:01:58:10	01:02:03:21

And then if it's too much, ask for help.



995	01:02:03:24	01:02:06:22

And again, you have to keep in mind



996	01:02:07:00	01:02:09:13

the business is not necessarily forever.



997	01:02:09:16	01:02:12:11

So if it doesn't work,

do not hesitate to stop



998	01:02:12:14	01:02:17:06

do not hesitate to restart,

do not hesitate to restructure



999	01:02:17:09	01:02:20:11

because that's how entrepreneurship works.



1000	01:02:20:14	01:02:23:24

And always, if I understand you correctly



1001	01:02:24:02	01:02:27:03

remember what your passion is

and keep going for that.



1002	01:02:27:06	01:02:32:13

Thank you so much. Thank you all for

your contributions to this webinar today.



1003	01:02:32:16	01:02:37:01

So we can conclude that when your business

is up and running and even growing



1004	01:02:37:04	01:02:40:20

it becomes important to look

at issues such as data protection.



1005	01:02:40:23	01:02:44:08

We get to deal with

the general data protection regulation



1006	01:02:44:11	01:02:47:09

the GDPR, or in Dutch: the AVG.



1007	01:02:47:12	01:02:50:09

And when you're looking to expand

your business across the borders



1008	01:02:50:12	01:02:54:23

you should do research on the best

markets for your products or services.



1009	01:02:55:01	01:02:58:08

Last but not least, we've seen

the importance of a good network



1010	01:02:58:11	01:03:01:22

and the challenges

of keeping your eyes on the future.



1011	01:03:02:00	01:03:04:19

We hope you all manage to stay focused.



1012	01:03:06:05	01:03:08:01

We've come to the end of this webinar.



1013	01:03:08:04	01:03:10:20

We hope this has been an inspiration

for you as an entrepreneur



1014	01:03:10:23	01:03:12:18

running your business in the Netherlands.



1015	01:03:12:21	01:03:17:17

For more information,

please visit our website business.gov.nl.



1016	01:03:19:07	01:03:21:06

Thank you for watching.

Good luck with your business



1017	01:03:21:09	01:03:23:23

and we hope

to welcome you at our next webinar.