So, I always say: If anybody can imagine the time that they're most fearful...
and what happens to your brain, and what happens to the way you feel...
and what happens when you think about 'what's next?'...
how afraid you may be, how traumatised you may be.
So Janice, you were at the very first MHPSS conference in London.
And we're here at the second conference in the Netherlands.
So obviously my first question has to be: Who's done it better? The Brits or the Dutch?
Oh, you're pinning me down now. I couldn't think anyone could top London, and...
But? -I am very, very surprised...
that you're all doing a wonderful job.
They'll never invite me back to London if I kind of...
It's a good politician's answer. You should be a politician.
But this is a great conference and in many, many ways...
including the fact that you've brought people with lived experience...
who went through a terrible, terrible public health emergency like Ebola...
and people who have been working in the field. It's a real great mix of people.
Why is it so important to have people from the field sharing their stories?
Both from the perspective of persons with lived mental health experience...
as well as from the perspective of people who are healthcare workers in a response.
I think for us in Liberia during Ebola, it was our first time experiencing...
that kind of a public health emergency on that scale that had international attention.
So it's really, really important for those voices that went through this experience...
to be able to contribute to the dialogue about what moves, what goes forward.
What are the best practices that we need to adopt...
that we didn't really know about when Ebola happened.
So there are so many lessons learned, we don't want to repeat it.
As we look at DRC, we look at other places where there are outbreaks...
We want to make sure that those lessons are taken to other places...
so that we don't repeat the same mistakes.
And in those moments of crisis, why is mental health and psychosocial support so important?
So, I always say: If anybody can imagine the time that they're most fearful...
and what happens to your brain, and what happens to the way you feel...
and what happens when you think about 'what's next?'...
how afraid you may be, how traumatised you may be.
How, if you are a person with a lived experience, how stigmatised you may be.
And the kind of dual stigma of someone who has an infectious disease such as Ebola...
and also has a mental health condition.
So all of those things mean that we really do need to learn from what has happened in the past.
And we also need to know that when we do planning...
that planning needs to incorporate those voices.
But specifically, what is it about mental health and psychosocial support that can change lives?
A lot. So if you think about someone whose ability to function...
is dependent upon their mental health condition being under control.
And that person cannot be in the world and really participate fully...
without having access to services and supports to make that happen.
Can you think of a personal example? -Oh, many. Many examples.
You have examples of people who contract Ebola...
and the psychological toll that it has...
leaves them to do untoward things that you would not believe.
In Liberia we had someone with Ebola who got on a plane, even though he knew he had Ebola.
And when he got off in Nigeria, he went on to infect other people. Deliberately.
So think about the psychological impact that has on somebody who decides:
'I'm not going to go out alone.'
And then you have people who have an infectious disease...
and the depression of having that disease makes them suicidal in some cases.
It makes them so down that they're unwilling to take the medication they need to get better.
And all around this is a double stigma. We have stigma in mental illness.
And then stigma of someone with mental health conditions...
that also has an infectious disease such as Ebola. So it's a double stigma...
and you'll meet at this conference at least one person with lived experience...
who can tell you about that stigma and what it really did to her.
That people whom she knew for a long time would not talk to her.
They would not take her money. Who would think that people would never take your money?
She'd go somewhere to buy something, they would not take her money.
They wouldn't sit next to her, they wouldn't sit on the same pew, even in church.
So the stigma is huge, and that stigma alone contributes to your mental illness...
contributes to your mental health.
Just before the end of Ebola, we started what we call 'community healing dialogues'.
Because what we found was that the social cohesion in communities was being fractured.
If your neighbour had Ebola and then you got it or someone in your household, you blamed him.
We had survivors who could not access community services, like go to a well...
because they were survivors of Ebola and the stigma attached to that.
So we initiated what we call community healing dialogues to bring people together.
People who were leaders in the community...
who were listened to by people who had Ebola before and were survivors...
and people who were family members of people who had died from Ebola.
Bring the whole group together and start talking about: How can we rebuild the trust?
Is that initiative supported by money? -You put your hand on what the problem is, right?
In many of these low-and middle-income countries...
they are stretched thin with their current health budgets.
And so to think they can take on an epidemic...
of the scale of Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinee, the largest Ebola epidemics in history...
to take on the scale of that with their own resources, they're not able to.
And then the question is: How can you build it better so that the next time around...
you're not talking about thousands of deaths.
But maybe you can clamp down on it before it gets to five deaths.
And that you really have the infrastructure in place to resist that.
And that means really investing in the healthcare infrastructure.
Investing in the health personnel power, investing in the communities.
All of those things are important.
The cynics will say: 'Okay, that is terrible, but how on earth is a conference going to help?
Politicians, NGOs, talk all the time, all they do is talk.'
What would you say to those people?
I would say that the collection of the most influential people in the world...
who are in charge of development dollars, who are in charge of health dollars...
coming together and making a statement...
like the example of the Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs...
who I have been following on Twitter, by the way, I'm kind of her groupie.
And when she puts something out, it has such reverberations around the world.
I heard her on the BBC just recently.
She was talking about a completely different topic, she started talking about mental health.
That is the voice. The voice and the example that leverages resources...
that leverages political will, is really, really important.
And your own voice is part of this whole conversation.
What is your personal motivation?
So, I had lived a long time in the United States.
I'm from Liberia originally and I had gone through the war.
And we had a very traumatic experience where the rebels came to my house...
and shot at people in the house...
and we actually had to leave one of the people who was living with us, behind...
because her hips were broken as we were running away.
We were held captive in the Taylor regime at the time...
and we had a very hard time getting out of Liberia.
So we, and you know, seeing people and dead bodies all around you, smelling dead bodies...
those are all real experiences for people that leave them with a lot of trauma.
That even if they did not die, relatives died, people died around them...
and they experienced a lot of fear being at gun point all the time.
And so all of that takes a lot of time to heal.
I had been able to recover from my own episodes with mental health issues...
and started working in the field in the United States.
And post-conflict Liberia, the first opportunity I got to come back...
made me realise how many people did not leave...
did not have the chance to access mental health services and supports...
and did not have the chance to recover.
And that kind of trauma, and the cumulative effect of that trauma...
In Liberia we talk about WW I, WW II, WW III. These are just different phases of our civil war.
So imagine someone going through all of that and then having a disease like Ebola.
The trauma of it, the cumulative trauma of that. So for me, that's what motivates me:
The fact that I think that I can do a small part in terms of helping others to become well.
What's your expectations of the results of a summit like this?
Money, money, money.
But I mean, seriously, money that is tied to concrete action.
Because the reality is that many of the donors and governments here...
have given time and time again.
And the issue is: How can we tie money to concrete actions?
To building systems of care. -Which are sustainable.
Exactly. So eight years ago I went back to Liberia with the Carter Center...
and we developed a cadre of mental health clinicians:
Nurses and PA's, physician assistants, who can deliver quality mental health service.
We only have one Liberian psychiatrist...
but we have over 300 mental health clinicians all over the country...
delivering the mental health and psychological services that we expect.
That are quality and evidence-based.
And so the issue is: We need to invest, we need... WHO talks about 'building back better'.
It's our chance to build back better.
Are there remarkable results that you think you can already highlight?
So first of all, the Dutch are known for their efficiency.
So kudos to you for a wonderfully orchestrated conference to begin with.
Thank you, I did everything. -Yes, I know.
But within that, the level... I've talked a lot about persons with lived experience...
but the level of inclusivity has been tremendous. So that's one thing.
The second thing started before I even got here.
Which is the Minister of Foreign Affairs and her leadership has been tremendous.
I'm her Twitter troll. I follow her on Twitter, she's always tweeting about mental health.
And I think last weekend I was listening to a conference she was on about development.
She talked about mental health then too. So that's been kind of really inspirational.
I hope others take away the same kind of inspiration from that.
Especially, and that's my third greatest thing...
is our vice-president for the Republic of Liberia is here.
And so she's going to hear all of this and hopefully we will see a sea change.
Great. Thank you very much. -Thank you.